The Milgram experiment and how we changed.

and the rat park experiment

9/6/23 New info that gives more data that Milgram was not as realistic as they claimed it was.

Rocío Matamoros

Be wary of Milgram, whose experiment was largely discredited because it was found that he had suppressed data that would seriously have undermined the conclusions he was determined to obtain. During the experiment, he had his assistants conduct interviews with test subjects; many of the subjects said they had noticed timing errors (screams starting before they actually pressed the button), speakers and other apparatus; accordingly, when they were supposedly inflicting the highest levels of pain, they already knew that the situation was fake, not reality.

The transcripts had not been destroyed, and were reviewed in a 2012 journal article by psychologist Gina Perry. She wrote that there was a "troubling mismatch between (published) descriptions of the experiment and evidence of what actually transpired. ... [O]nly half of the people who undertook the experiment fully believed it was real and of those, 66% disobeyed the experimenter"

Like George Carlin, I’m not pessimistic, I’m a realist. I want to know the truth, no matter how much it stinks, but the good stuff from history is wonderful to find. Sometimes good things in history hide between the lines because they were censored or forgotten. Sometimes good things hide in history because they were never revisited.

The Milgram Experiment was a simple test in obedience. Keep in mind that the test was done in the 1960s, during a time of prosperity of the nation and trust in government was high.

The results were horrifying. The majority would follow an order from a doctor even if it meant death to the other subject.
In other experiments, they tried the test with having the doctor giving orders in different outfits and found interesting results. People were more likely to follow orders if the person was in uniform.

That experiment’s results were what had me depressed for a long time. It explained why every revolution ends up in bloodshed and new corruption flowering out of the movement.
If humans don’t question orders, how could we stop the inevitable corruption?

I realize that today prosperity is low (but looks big in mass media) and trust in government has been low. Last I checked, people aren’t fawning over uniforms either with this medical and law enforcement mess we went through. Things change. People change. There’s a strong growing fight for civil rights going on for human rights in the mess of the last 3 years.

I am confident that if that test was run again today it would show a minority that follow horrible orders. People today trust authority less and less.

We see the same with the Asch conformity experiments. The actors picked the short line as the longest. The non actor usually went along with the group…. Ok. But they found out that if another person questioned the group, the subject would also question the group. This experiment was flawed by the methods, just like the other experiments trying to say how humans are dumb.

There’s a study that had different results in different conditions. The Rat Park Experiment.

There was a cage where rats were given all the food they wanted. The population increased quickly and then there was chaos and population collapse.

But then, someone redid the test with an adjustment. The rats would be given activities to play with. Turns out they self regulated. Population plateau!

But today we still have a leadership that still believes that the original narrow minded results were correct.

This is how science is practiced today. Once someone discovers something, they move on to the next thing. Many times experiments were found to later give different results. Did reality change? Likely not, unless you like quantum theory, lol.
The truth is that in experiments the methods are determined with the knowledge and experience at the time. They could have had limitations or errors that were not known at the time. Just because it’s checked by others and in a book does it make it true?

Add both of these two studies original results together… The ‘system’ still thinks that humans are compliant to authority and without authority they would breed themselves to death!

Good thing we aren’t this way. I’m feeling optimistic, but am still being a realist.