This a thousand times. In fact, the Asch tests probably measure a problem that was foundational to Milgram- the malleability of thoughts with social pressure.
We don't know what internal journey Milgram subjects went through. Some (it has been argued many) believed or knew it was fake and that their actions had no real consequences. Others may have completely misunderstood the staging. Some may have not thought about it at all. It's a highly-contrived setup and it's extremely difficult to know exactly what people were thinking on their way through it, and Milgram didn't debrief subjects (or record any accounts of their process).
But of the people that WERE credulous, the issue is that the presentation of authoritative instructions probably changed most of those minds (if we assume that sadists are a minority).
The last three years appear very set up, and years if not decades in the making. I just read the 'I've been up all night/My generation will put it right' lyric lines in the Land of Confusion post and remember the tune well from listening to the radio late at night in my room as a young teen or pre-teen wondering wtf was going on in the world. (Thanks, no pressure Phil Collins.)
The amount of baggage parents inadvertently inflicted as war babies on to Gen.X... jeepers. Parents had authority over what was done, but not what was thought, and eventually what one thought became what one did, which was reject everything held up as true, which in time naturally became, 'To hell with the government and accompanying systems, and everything they stand for.'
It does feel wholly contrived, which seems to mollify the worst of the sting. It points to a very big picture playing out. The point imho is to get the right perspective, which is a spiritual take, a Nietzschean 'Beyond Good and Evil,' ie. what are they trying to get us to do? Gain autonomy, relocate Spirit, rebuild the world as we want it or as we know it should be.
"Who the hell is this guy reading my entire archive? Oh, he's got some articles."
So, these studies are near and dear to my heart, and apparently a lot of people talk about them these days. At one point, everyone had to watch the Milgram videos in grad school. That's good, but I sometimes worry we're oversimplifying both their implications and their original outcomes.
What you don't often hear about the Milgram experiments is that they WERE re-run several times over the next couple years in a number of different contexts, with broadly similar results, but these results are questionable. At least one researcher who reviewed Milgram's data estimated that over half the subjects either knew the experiment wasn't real or believed it to be some kind of theater by design. There's also the usual accusations of data manipulation, which the last three years should show anyone is a thing that happens a lot.
Don't get me wrong; Milgram and Stanford were trying to get a clear look at real darkness, but this is stuff that's very hard to generate unnaturally. If anything, I find the Stanford study more credible BECAUSE it was "unsuccessful"- by spinning disastrously out of control it proved the thesis better than a nice set of data might have.
I like to learn about the system dynamics more than the details.
It helps me feel sane to see the flaws in their thinking.
I don't write much because most have said it better, like your article on Scott Adams.
With the Stanford experiment, it seems like using college students who are competitive is not a good representation of typical people.
Thanks for the info about Milgram, they like to pick the failures out as proof of something that they latch onto for their psychology system.
Same with the rat park experiment, it's almost like they wanted the results to show this in order to influence policy, science, and keep people afraid.
Thats the same science that theyre using to influence us, and its not working the way they expected cause it's based on studies with wrong data.
Makes sense why they're so obsessed with AI, they want an easy button Haha
This guy suggests all these types of experiments were psyops to essentially make us lose faith in humanity and distrust each other. I tend to agree with him.
No problem, thought you might find it interesting.
Agreed, when it comes to biology, they are not able to do nearly as much as they claim to be able to do. Life is infinitely more complex and misunderstood than they let on.
Great link, enjoyed the article, thanks very much.
'The truth is that in experiments the methods are determined with the knowledge and experience at the time.'
Add to that, the *desired result*, which can, consciously or unconsciously, influence the study design. Just because the study is an RCT (the so-called "gold standard") doesn't mean it's good. The study design and results need to be examined by many others to find possible flaws.
"In 2009, researchers conducted a study designed to replicate Milgram's classic obedience experiment. The researchers made several alterations to Milgram's experiment.8
Burger J. Replicating Milgram: Would people still obey today?. Am Psychol. 2009;64(1):1-11. doi:10.1037/a0010932
"The maximum shock level was 150 volts as opposed to the original 450 volts.
Participants were also carefully screened to eliminate those who might experience adverse reactions to the experiment.
"The results of the new experiment revealed that participants obeyed at roughly the same rate that they did when Milgram conducted his original study more than 40 years ago.
"Some psychologists suggested that in spite of the changes made in the replication, the study still had merit and could be used to further explore some of the situational factors that also influenced the results of Milgram's study.9 But other psychologists suggested that the replication was too dissimilar to Milgram's original study to draw any meaningful comparisons.10"
I tend to side with the former. I'll add this evidence: war. Men following orders to kill strangers. Yes, they're boot-camp conditioned, but they went to boot camp and submitted to atrocious treatment on their own. Yes, they were conditioned by society, etc... none of which detracts from Milgram's core conclusion, but rather, if anything it adds to it.
THAT said (infinite nuance alert), most men sent war don't shoot to kill. The following .pdf is a book the length of a novelette that addresses this issue: https://kropfpolisci.com/cognitive.grossman.pdf
"Participants were also carefully screened to eliminate those who might experience adverse reactions to the experiment."
So basically they eliminated a big chunk of those who would not want to shock people in the first place and then said "look, a similar ratio complied!"
As for war, I remember a few friends that became Marines in order to get some numbers under their belts.
And yeah it's societal conditioning, xenophobia etc.
But those extremes are less expressed in the total population as compared to the "glory days" of the empire.
I'll point this out. Models are models, eh? Let's add to this model another imitation of real-life: where do electroshock victims come from in real life? Typically, the timid and submissive go first. So let's imagine this experiment with the 'trigger alerts' bossed into some safety corner wherein the not hyper-sensitive average blokes p[ush voltage buttons.
But that's just a perspective expander. Back inside the Milgaim&Milgram 2.0 models, the fact that they filtered those who claimed to be squeamish, doing so basically to avoid lawsuits, doesn't mean that the self-declared squeamish would be willing to experience the discomfort of an authority figure (TRIGGER ALERT!!!) telling them to do what they're told and it will all be ok.
Almost everyone would tell a test interviewer that they are their own boss, that they only do what they're told when it's the right thing to do. Then they turn around and lick somebody's boot. I don't think Milgram's experiment is far off the mark.
“The truth is that in experiments the methods are determined with the knowledge and experience at the time. They could have had limitations or errors that were not known at the time. Just because it’s checked by others and in a book does it make it true? “
Hence the “agreed upon “science” and “misinformation” of today, by “fact-checkers” (most of whom are in the same age group/mentality mode of this time); they, influenced by the current ideology believe if their like-minded tribe ascribes to it (for tribal survival reasons) it it truth. They see no other truths that were postulated using same mentality/tribal parameters generations prior as worthy of even thought. Scary, actually, that, based on this repetitive activity, humanity hasn’t killed itself off sooner.
I've been reading Iain McGilchrist's book The Matter with Things and he explains a lot of the mindset of the scientists, artists, and philosophers that lack right brained gestalt thinking.
This makes them miss out on a lot of reality, as the left brain focuses on "things" instead of the whole dynamic.
It explains why they can run these experiments and ignore other factors.
James Corbett does an excellent job of deconstructing the Milgram experiments. And the Asch conformity tests. It turns out that in both, if someone stood up to authority in some way, then the obedience and conformity was far FAR less likely to happen. **Far less!**
So... I've inferred that the focus in our 'popular' press and hence understanding of these experiments has been a deliberate form of predictive programming by focused inattention and misdirection to undermine how much power the individual actually has to affect positive societal outcomes.
OPERATION COVIDIUS showed how easy it was for them to CONTROL the global herds of modern moron slaves: From lockdowns, to self-confinement, to wearing the useless muzzles to getting injected with an experimental toxic mRNA spew multiple times.
The herds of modern moron slaves OBEYED it all. This experiment was/is even funnier than the milgram one cause in this one the subject is wiling to cull himself!
That just solidifies the level of stupidity that the herds of MMS have. How can a non-stupid individual think that an inoculation made-up in a ~6 month period is "safe" and "effective"?
And in the past three years, no one has had a cold or bronchitis or the flu; it’s only COVID. All upper respiratory illness has been renamed COVID. Talk about effective marketing!
Isn't that funny?! The Regime Media controls the week minds of the herds of modern moron slaves, anyone that still refutes this FACT is just revealing deep cowardice and meekness.
Using the tool PCR everything can be "COVID-19", even breast cancer!
Especially if its use fraudulently pays every doc and hospital for Covidiot Shots given! A report was published several days ago showing how the Pharma Medical Complex has paid out millions for hawking their poison. Feds just advertised yesterday on the tell-a-version that Covidiots could receive a 4-pack of PCR-Q-tips for FREE. I really think this is the new DEM polling strategy; they need to see who’s still drinking the KoolAid!
The ads have started for “free COVID tests” paid for by all Americans’ tax dollars; the white coats’/government suits’ (or sweatshirts, depending on the state) subtle reinforcement of “following our science” that you obeyed for “safety” last year and the year before. Even a business suit suffices for the needed “trustworthy uniform” today in the face of “casual everyday”!
Yep and when it comes to other shots like the flu and RSV jabs, uptake has been low.
Before COVID, it was crazy to question vaccines.
After COVID, questioning them has been less taboo.
A lot of people are avoiding shots but are afraid to admit they were hoodwinked!
"One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we’ve been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It’s simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we’ve been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back.” ― Carl Sagan
I questioned flu jabs several decades ago because the idea of jabbing muscle tissue when the avenue of initial infection is the sinuses didn't make sense to me.
In the USofT 230.64 million MMS/3i's (~70% of the total herd) took the "initial protocol" (2 doses of the miracle stuff)!
The boosters were at 56,478,510 (~17% of the total herd) by May 11th 2023.
Since they can today roam around without the certificate and the other limitations the meek/cowards (53%) didn't took the boosters. They don't know what they missed!
I just realized (with my wiggy substack page), I was trying to comment on your most recent post but I got pushed here when I 'pressed' post. And didn't notice.
And it was becoming painfully clear why I'm having a hard time reregistering my car and paying the excise tax or paying 'property' tax, for that matter. When none of it makes any sense anymore and I feel like I'm being pressed in a vice.
And when I read the above comment I had the image of so many loosing their compassion and empathy (if they had any to begin with), and being herded like cows to the slaughter without realizing that they too have no idea of how they are being controlled:
To loose their humanity and call the other "The Other", with pointed finger and much certainty.
I hadn't read your article... but who here is pushing the button to electroshock 'his' fellow human. (?)
Biden is the current puppet, but Trump also pushed this nonsense and started the operation warp speed garbage jabs.
Notice how only like 1 or 2 Republicans talk about the bs surrounding convid, the bailouts etc?
Notice how they focus on fauci and won't ever bring up that the FDA has been captured by big pharma?
I really don't think nuclear war will happen. We're already in a new world order and the predator class that controls nations, east or west are not stupid enough to mess up the planet for decades, even if they can survive in bunkers.
Excellent. To my way of thinking, the the Asch Conformity Experiments are even more apropos to our moment and diagnose the problem with a scary precision: https://mistermicawber.substack.com/i/51858363/groupthink-dynamics-one-of-the-most-powerful-forces-on-earth
Yes and even that's changing based on context.
Imagine you trusted a group of people who were dead wrong about a certain medical policy.
Next time they do something, some of us may go the other way.
It's an exciting time, despite the horror of the situation.
This a thousand times. In fact, the Asch tests probably measure a problem that was foundational to Milgram- the malleability of thoughts with social pressure.
We don't know what internal journey Milgram subjects went through. Some (it has been argued many) believed or knew it was fake and that their actions had no real consequences. Others may have completely misunderstood the staging. Some may have not thought about it at all. It's a highly-contrived setup and it's extremely difficult to know exactly what people were thinking on their way through it, and Milgram didn't debrief subjects (or record any accounts of their process).
But of the people that WERE credulous, the issue is that the presentation of authoritative instructions probably changed most of those minds (if we assume that sadists are a minority).
The last three years appear very set up, and years if not decades in the making. I just read the 'I've been up all night/My generation will put it right' lyric lines in the Land of Confusion post and remember the tune well from listening to the radio late at night in my room as a young teen or pre-teen wondering wtf was going on in the world. (Thanks, no pressure Phil Collins.)
The amount of baggage parents inadvertently inflicted as war babies on to Gen.X... jeepers. Parents had authority over what was done, but not what was thought, and eventually what one thought became what one did, which was reject everything held up as true, which in time naturally became, 'To hell with the government and accompanying systems, and everything they stand for.'
It does feel wholly contrived, which seems to mollify the worst of the sting. It points to a very big picture playing out. The point imho is to get the right perspective, which is a spiritual take, a Nietzschean 'Beyond Good and Evil,' ie. what are they trying to get us to do? Gain autonomy, relocate Spirit, rebuild the world as we want it or as we know it should be.
Interesting and hopeful point - perhaps all their psy ops campaigns and nudge units are based on such irreproduceable plans and are doomed to fail..
"Who the hell is this guy reading my entire archive? Oh, he's got some articles."
So, these studies are near and dear to my heart, and apparently a lot of people talk about them these days. At one point, everyone had to watch the Milgram videos in grad school. That's good, but I sometimes worry we're oversimplifying both their implications and their original outcomes.
What you don't often hear about the Milgram experiments is that they WERE re-run several times over the next couple years in a number of different contexts, with broadly similar results, but these results are questionable. At least one researcher who reviewed Milgram's data estimated that over half the subjects either knew the experiment wasn't real or believed it to be some kind of theater by design. There's also the usual accusations of data manipulation, which the last three years should show anyone is a thing that happens a lot.
Don't get me wrong; Milgram and Stanford were trying to get a clear look at real darkness, but this is stuff that's very hard to generate unnaturally. If anything, I find the Stanford study more credible BECAUSE it was "unsuccessful"- by spinning disastrously out of control it proved the thesis better than a nice set of data might have.
Found you through Tereza's third paradigm.
I like to learn about the system dynamics more than the details.
It helps me feel sane to see the flaws in their thinking.
I don't write much because most have said it better, like your article on Scott Adams.
With the Stanford experiment, it seems like using college students who are competitive is not a good representation of typical people.
Thanks for the info about Milgram, they like to pick the failures out as proof of something that they latch onto for their psychology system.
Same with the rat park experiment, it's almost like they wanted the results to show this in order to influence policy, science, and keep people afraid.
Thats the same science that theyre using to influence us, and its not working the way they expected cause it's based on studies with wrong data.
Makes sense why they're so obsessed with AI, they want an easy button Haha
Let's hope the Peeps will learn SOMETHING from all this, for the future!
Like, how to recognize a RAT in human's clothing...
https://open.substack.com/pub/liarsworld/p/its-a-footshock-world?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android&r=10iiay
This guy suggests all these types of experiments were psyops to essentially make us lose faith in humanity and distrust each other. I tend to agree with him.
Thanks a lot for this. Yeah they're way behind on what they expected they could do.
https://posthumousstyle.substack.com/p/neuralink-does-not-read-minds-and
No problem, thought you might find it interesting.
Agreed, when it comes to biology, they are not able to do nearly as much as they claim to be able to do. Life is infinitely more complex and misunderstood than they let on.
Great link, enjoyed the article, thanks very much.
'The truth is that in experiments the methods are determined with the knowledge and experience at the time.'
Add to that, the *desired result*, which can, consciously or unconsciously, influence the study design. Just because the study is an RCT (the so-called "gold standard") doesn't mean it's good. The study design and results need to be examined by many others to find possible flaws.
Wow - didn't know this - this is fantastic information!!!
It seems more nuanced than that:
https://www.verywellmind.com/the-milgram-obedience-experiment-2795243
"In 2009, researchers conducted a study designed to replicate Milgram's classic obedience experiment. The researchers made several alterations to Milgram's experiment.8
Burger J. Replicating Milgram: Would people still obey today?. Am Psychol. 2009;64(1):1-11. doi:10.1037/a0010932
"The maximum shock level was 150 volts as opposed to the original 450 volts.
Participants were also carefully screened to eliminate those who might experience adverse reactions to the experiment.
"The results of the new experiment revealed that participants obeyed at roughly the same rate that they did when Milgram conducted his original study more than 40 years ago.
"Some psychologists suggested that in spite of the changes made in the replication, the study still had merit and could be used to further explore some of the situational factors that also influenced the results of Milgram's study.9 But other psychologists suggested that the replication was too dissimilar to Milgram's original study to draw any meaningful comparisons.10"
I tend to side with the former. I'll add this evidence: war. Men following orders to kill strangers. Yes, they're boot-camp conditioned, but they went to boot camp and submitted to atrocious treatment on their own. Yes, they were conditioned by society, etc... none of which detracts from Milgram's core conclusion, but rather, if anything it adds to it.
THAT said (infinite nuance alert), most men sent war don't shoot to kill. The following .pdf is a book the length of a novelette that addresses this issue: https://kropfpolisci.com/cognitive.grossman.pdf
They mentioned this about that study:
"Participants were also carefully screened to eliminate those who might experience adverse reactions to the experiment."
So basically they eliminated a big chunk of those who would not want to shock people in the first place and then said "look, a similar ratio complied!"
As for war, I remember a few friends that became Marines in order to get some numbers under their belts.
And yeah it's societal conditioning, xenophobia etc.
But those extremes are less expressed in the total population as compared to the "glory days" of the empire.
I'll point this out. Models are models, eh? Let's add to this model another imitation of real-life: where do electroshock victims come from in real life? Typically, the timid and submissive go first. So let's imagine this experiment with the 'trigger alerts' bossed into some safety corner wherein the not hyper-sensitive average blokes p[ush voltage buttons.
But that's just a perspective expander. Back inside the Milgaim&Milgram 2.0 models, the fact that they filtered those who claimed to be squeamish, doing so basically to avoid lawsuits, doesn't mean that the self-declared squeamish would be willing to experience the discomfort of an authority figure (TRIGGER ALERT!!!) telling them to do what they're told and it will all be ok.
Almost everyone would tell a test interviewer that they are their own boss, that they only do what they're told when it's the right thing to do. Then they turn around and lick somebody's boot. I don't think Milgram's experiment is far off the mark.
Also, here's a perspective: https://youtu.be/JM2o9e-pwoE
"I’m feeling optimistic, but am still being a realist."
It's called being an Apocaloptimist (https://margaretannaalice.substack.com/p/letter-to-a-mainstream-straddler#%C2%A7apocaloptimism), otherwise known as practicing the Stockdale Paradox and Confront the Brutal Facts, and it is exactly the attitude we need to have to triumph:
• “Letter to My Karass” (https://margaretannaalice.substack.com/p/letter-to-my-karass)
“The truth is that in experiments the methods are determined with the knowledge and experience at the time. They could have had limitations or errors that were not known at the time. Just because it’s checked by others and in a book does it make it true? “
Hence the “agreed upon “science” and “misinformation” of today, by “fact-checkers” (most of whom are in the same age group/mentality mode of this time); they, influenced by the current ideology believe if their like-minded tribe ascribes to it (for tribal survival reasons) it it truth. They see no other truths that were postulated using same mentality/tribal parameters generations prior as worthy of even thought. Scary, actually, that, based on this repetitive activity, humanity hasn’t killed itself off sooner.
I've been reading Iain McGilchrist's book The Matter with Things and he explains a lot of the mindset of the scientists, artists, and philosophers that lack right brained gestalt thinking.
This makes them miss out on a lot of reality, as the left brain focuses on "things" instead of the whole dynamic.
It explains why they can run these experiments and ignore other factors.
Same goes for other fields.
Hello Rob:
James Corbett does an excellent job of deconstructing the Milgram experiments. And the Asch conformity tests. It turns out that in both, if someone stood up to authority in some way, then the obedience and conformity was far FAR less likely to happen. **Far less!**
So... I've inferred that the focus in our 'popular' press and hence understanding of these experiments has been a deliberate form of predictive programming by focused inattention and misdirection to undermine how much power the individual actually has to affect positive societal outcomes.
Fascinating stuff. All the best.
I'm sorry Rob... You must be Blind.
OPERATION COVIDIUS showed how easy it was for them to CONTROL the global herds of modern moron slaves: From lockdowns, to self-confinement, to wearing the useless muzzles to getting injected with an experimental toxic mRNA spew multiple times.
The herds of modern moron slaves OBEYED it all. This experiment was/is even funnier than the milgram one cause in this one the subject is wiling to cull himself!
They didn't know that they were culling themselves.
Meanwhile with milgram, they were told that the shock could kill the other guy.
Despite the covidians still denying the shots are dangerous, the uptake of the boosters is dismal. Same for the kid shots.
They subconsciously know something is not right.
That just solidifies the level of stupidity that the herds of MMS have. How can a non-stupid individual think that an inoculation made-up in a ~6 month period is "safe" and "effective"?
The uptake is still in UP mode...
https://postimg.cc/64qyMSf0
So it's clear that the subc is malfunctioning.
And in the past three years, no one has had a cold or bronchitis or the flu; it’s only COVID. All upper respiratory illness has been renamed COVID. Talk about effective marketing!
Isn't that funny?! The Regime Media controls the week minds of the herds of modern moron slaves, anyone that still refutes this FACT is just revealing deep cowardice and meekness.
Using the tool PCR everything can be "COVID-19", even breast cancer!
Especially if its use fraudulently pays every doc and hospital for Covidiot Shots given! A report was published several days ago showing how the Pharma Medical Complex has paid out millions for hawking their poison. Feds just advertised yesterday on the tell-a-version that Covidiots could receive a 4-pack of PCR-Q-tips for FREE. I really think this is the new DEM polling strategy; they need to see who’s still drinking the KoolAid!
The ads have started for “free COVID tests” paid for by all Americans’ tax dollars; the white coats’/government suits’ (or sweatshirts, depending on the state) subtle reinforcement of “following our science” that you obeyed for “safety” last year and the year before. Even a business suit suffices for the needed “trustworthy uniform” today in the face of “casual everyday”!
Now they are just testing how efficient OPERATION COVIDIUS tools really were in terms of duration.
It has to be assumed that those are people who took the two originally doses.
So only 35% got the so called 'boosters'.
What was the original market penetration for the first two jabs?
Either only 35% got the first two or people got smarter.
Yep and when it comes to other shots like the flu and RSV jabs, uptake has been low.
Before COVID, it was crazy to question vaccines.
After COVID, questioning them has been less taboo.
A lot of people are avoiding shots but are afraid to admit they were hoodwinked!
"One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we’ve been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It’s simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we’ve been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back.” ― Carl Sagan
I questioned flu jabs several decades ago because the idea of jabbing muscle tissue when the avenue of initial infection is the sinuses didn't make sense to me.
In the USofT 230.64 million MMS/3i's (~70% of the total herd) took the "initial protocol" (2 doses of the miracle stuff)!
The boosters were at 56,478,510 (~17% of the total herd) by May 11th 2023.
Since they can today roam around without the certificate and the other limitations the meek/cowards (53%) didn't took the boosters. They don't know what they missed!
Thanks for the update!
Your misusing the word meek, btw.
meek and coward... what combo is even worse (besides MMS/3i's)?!
We are all being poisoned and paying taxes for the privilege.
Slaves to both.
I've been saying I'm on my last legs for years, but I've looked in the box and there's not one pair left.
I just realized (with my wiggy substack page), I was trying to comment on your most recent post but I got pushed here when I 'pressed' post. And didn't notice.
I had just read this:
https://climateviewer.substack.com/p/usaf-admits-chemtrails-adulticide?
And it was becoming painfully clear why I'm having a hard time reregistering my car and paying the excise tax or paying 'property' tax, for that matter. When none of it makes any sense anymore and I feel like I'm being pressed in a vice.
And when I read the above comment I had the image of so many loosing their compassion and empathy (if they had any to begin with), and being herded like cows to the slaughter without realizing that they too have no idea of how they are being controlled:
To loose their humanity and call the other "The Other", with pointed finger and much certainty.
I hadn't read your article... but who here is pushing the button to electroshock 'his' fellow human. (?)
The antidote! https://x.com/unifydtv/status/1707929691447873737?s=46&t=kEzaJGEmyJRctwiO0Kyx1A
Dude, please stop spamming comments that have nothing to do with my article.
I have a tiny audience, but I'm ok with it. I just post things that others have not said.
Good luck on your stuff.
Biden is the current puppet, but Trump also pushed this nonsense and started the operation warp speed garbage jabs.
Notice how only like 1 or 2 Republicans talk about the bs surrounding convid, the bailouts etc?
Notice how they focus on fauci and won't ever bring up that the FDA has been captured by big pharma?
I really don't think nuclear war will happen. We're already in a new world order and the predator class that controls nations, east or west are not stupid enough to mess up the planet for decades, even if they can survive in bunkers.